Skyler Halford is one of the best shooters to come out of BYU in the last decade. Learn more at halfordhoops.com

Tristan: All right. Welcome in everyone. We have with us on the line, Coach Skyler Halford, straight out of Utah, coming with us, joining us today. Coach, how you doing?

Coach Halford: I am doing fantastic. How are you guys doing?

Tristan: Oh, we're doing well. We're always doing well. Always happy to have an expert like you on the line with us, and we're going to start with you today where we start with most our interviews. We want to hear your story. We want to hear how you got to be halfordhoops.com, CEO, general manager, coach, boss man, whatever you want to call it. We want to hear your story. Bring us through your BYU days. We know you played there as well. Were an excellent shooter over there at BYU. Tell us about it.

Coach Halford: Yeah. Wow, long story, I'm definitely not going to give you the long version because I know we've all got our own stories and the long versions, and we could sit down and talk about it all night. But, yeah, I grew up in Orem, Provo area here in Utah. Grew up a BYU fan my whole life. In high school, I was second leading scorer in the state. I actually wasn't highly recruited, felt like I should have been. But, you know, my size. If anybody's ever seen me play, they're probably... And when they see me now, and they ask ne, "You played college basketball?" And they give me that look. "How did this guy play college basketball?" Because, you know, 175 pounds, six foot, can't jump, barely get over a piece of paper. So I wasn't heavily recruited out of high school. I did get a shot as a walk-on at Utah State University. I then served a mission for my church as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ the Latter-day Saints for two years in Brazil, so kind of had two years away from basketball, came back, and actually played at a junior college in Salt Lake, called Salt Lake Community College. I was a first-team All-American there. I worked my butt off trying to get back to... My ultimate goal was BYU, didn't know if that would actually pan out. Turns out, it actually did. They had a scholarship that freed up, and Coach Dave Rose over there at BYU extended that invitation, and I happily accepted, and man it was a wild ride. It was two years that I felt like being in college, and then two years at BYU. I mean you can talk about my first career start. I had 28 points. I'm just thinking of some of the fun memories I have.

Tristan: Oh, I'd say so.

Coach Halford: 28 points against San Diego, first career start there. We beat, let's see, number three Gonzaga at Gonzaga my senior year. We'd snapped some streak of... I don't know how many games... 70 plus in a row that they had won at home. We went to the NCAA Tournament both times. My senior year is the last time BYU has been to the Tournament, so they're hoping to change that this year. Looking to make some new changes, and it should be really good. But, anyway, I could go on and on, but that's a little bit about my story, and then after that, I was going to go play professional basketball overseas. For reason or another, my wife and I decided not to go. We had a contract setup to go over in Estonia and play, but I decided to stop the playing days, and then I started Halford Hoops. I love basketball way too much to just let it go, so I decided to turn it around and become sort of like a coach/trainer, and I've been doing that now for the past, let's see, it'll be four years in September, and I have loved it. It's been awesome. It's a new way of looking at the game. As a player, you learn, and you see the Xs and Os, and you train, and you train, and you train, but it's a different way to look at the game, and a different way to learn it once you try to become the teacher, so it's been really fun. I've really enjoyed it.

Tristan: I'd say so. So you get out of college. You start up your own business where you're training players. Obviously, you have that coaches' mentality in you. Was there anyone, growing up, was it a BYU coach, was it a Salt Lake State coach, was it your folks? Who really instilled that coaching mindset into you, and who helped you really think that you could take this to the next level?

Coach Halford: Yeah. It's funny. My grandma the other day. It's funny you mentioned this. My grandma actually sent me an article. Back in high school when I was a sophomore that one of the local news reporters had written, and anyway, they were like asking me, “What do you want to do?” And it was like, my end result was like, “Oh, I want to be a coach,” and so that's kind of panning out. My dad growing up was my coach all growing up until about high school, and even into high school, he was an assistant coach my senior year, and so he kind of was there for me all the time, and every single day shooting with me, rebounding with me. I wanted to be that person, but I also wanted to be even more because of the knowledge that I was able to gain through college basketball, and things that I know now that I wish I would have known when I was in fifth, sixth grade even that I didn't learn until college or even after college. Now, really investigating the game more and understanding it better. So it's just kind of stuck with me and trying to pass that on to younger kids and help them to develop that way.

Skyler answers all our questions on how youth athletes can build an elite mindset

Craig: Yeah. You talk a little bit about the types of players that you work with. You're working with younger kids. What's a typical client for you look like? Do you cover youth basketball, high school, college? What does that look like?

Coach Halford: Yeah. Yeah, so I actually go as young as third grader to professional athletes. I've got a couple of overseas guys that I know. Elijah Bryant, he played at BYU. He's over playing in Israel. I'm currently working with Kyle Collinsworth who was with the Raptors G League team last year. He's a teammate of mine, so we played together. It's awesome to see, even at the young… Some of the fundamental things that you teach some of the younger kids, how they're even valuable to some of my professional clients. More and more over time as I've worked with that span, you see the fundamentals continually come in regardless of age, but really just becoming really solid and firm with those fundamentals.

Craig: That's interesting. Yeah, fundamentals are universal across all age groups. How else do you sort of adjust your strategy, then, working with different players? So obviously you want to hammer those fundamentals, but what are some of the things that are a little bit more advanced that you wouldn't necessarily do with youth players?

Coach Halford: Yeah. So with older players and professionals, for example, right now with Kyle, we're working a lot on his shot and helping his shot develop. Of course with younger players, we work on the basic fundamentals of your form, but then we kind of move on into a little bit more such as balance and core stability, and specific parts of the body that are being used in your shot and focusing on becoming a better shooter in those aspects, rather than just the mechanics of your arm, and where you're looking, so we work on things like that. One thing that I've learned with my older players is sometimes I think when people are training people who they think know everything, like, “Oh, man, he's a professional. He's gotten to this point.” One thing that I've learned, at least this summer in particular, is just never assume that somebody knows something. Don't be afraid to say something that you see, if that makes sense. If you feel like there's a correction that, “Oh, wait. I thought he would know this, or I thought he would understand that.” You can't make any assumptions. Even if they do, sometimes they may even just need a reminder, so it's really re-emphasizing what they already know, and then introducing new things that you see that they may not know and not being afraid telling them that.

Craig: Yeah, great. And so, yeah, mechanics are everything. What about your specialty? We know, based on your background, that you're a lights out shooter. Would you consider that your specialty, or do you do other areas of the game?

Coach Halford: Yeah. I would say my number one... Like you said, "My specialty is shooting mechanics, and not just the mechanics, but also the mindset that a shooter needs to be in." A lot of players these days, they go out and they shoot, and they shoot, and they shoot, and they shoot, and they come back to me, and they're like, "Skyler, what is going on? Why can't I do this?" And it reminds me of myself when I was a senior at BYU, and I started off first quarter of the year shooting like 25% from three, and I could not figure it out, but one of my assistant coaches was like, "Hey man, you've got to trust and have faith in all the work you've previously done. You can't be thinking about it so much." And then, we also had a sports psychologist that we worked with that talked about power statements and talking positively to yourself, and I've been really trying to instill that in my players as well, not just the mechanics. But that's kind of where my specialty comes in is helping those players, not only have the right mechanics, have the right drills to do, but to also have the right mindset to be one-up on the rest of those shooters out there that are playing, and I really think that's a big differentiator amongst great shooters and elite shooters, the best of the best, is they have a mindset for it.

Tristan: Interesting. So it really is the intangibles here that we're talking about-

Coach Halford: Yeah.

Tristan: Making sure that you know that you can nail that shot before even taking it.

Coach Halford: And believing, yeah, exactly.

Craig: Yeah. Because if you think about it, I mean, there's such small differences between skill levels of some of these players.

Coach Halford: Yeah.

Craig: But you have elite players, and it's some of those intangibles that set them apart.

Coach Halford: Absolutely.

Tristan: So you have that mindset going into it. Let's say you've already instilled that in one of your trainers... In one of your players that you're training, I mean. What are some of your drills that you like to incorporate early on when you're first starting to work with somebody? What are some of your favorite drills that you like to take them out to the court, to start to really hammer at?

Coach Halford: Yeah. So when I first am introduced to a player, let's just say, someone that I haven't worked with before, I always take them through kind of like a introductory workout to understand what some of their weaknesses are. We always go through ball handling and footwork to start. Because it's good to be a spot up shooter, that's a great thing to be, but if you can't do anything other than that, you'll have like a limit to how much time you're going to see on the floor. Becoming a good ball handler and having good footwork really can build you into an elite shooter overall and being able to do so much more on the court. So we always put them through... We talk about balance. We talk about footwork. We talk about timing. And so, I'll take them through a series of ball handling drills. One of my favorites is that we just get in a wide stance, like you're in a defensive stance, for balance, and we don't take big steps. We take small steps, so they can feel their bodies, not losing that balance when they take a big lunge step forward to maybe put the ball between their legs, and they lose some of that balance. We focus on taking small steps and quick dribbles, and seeing if they're able to really hone in on that balance, moving with the ball, and just seeing that ball handle. And then we'll move into more of... A bunch of different things like mid-range shots, three point shots, whether it's catch and shoot, whether it's off the dribble. And sometimes throughout this because it's such a long process for a player to become an elite athlete in the sport of basketball, whatever sport it is, and so you can't do everything at once. So typically, I'll be going through, and it's either the footwork, ball handling, or shooting mechanics where I see something that's lacking, and I typically don't like to move on until we've talked about that certain point, so I don't want to throw like 300 things at them and have them try to focus on all of those things, so we'll break it down as soon as I see something that's wrong with their footwork. We'll talk about it. We'll drill it out until they can put that together, whether it's just straight back from triple threat and how to use your pivot food, or whether it's an advanced move where we're trying to gain separation from a defender, or if it's just your shooting mechanics and breaking that down. It usually hits the footwork, and the ball handling, and then moving into those mechanics of shooting, and once they get that down, then we just kind of expand from there.

Tristan: Got it. I love that short step example you gave there, much like the power step that you see a lot of football players use. I mean it just translates all over, all over the world of sports for sure. Now you bring on a client. You bring on somebody that you're going to train. It's Kyle that's playing over there in the G League, let's say. Is there something with the majority of the guys that you work with, is there something you've identified, in your experience training players, that most players need work on?

Coach Halford: Yeah. That's a great question. With older players specifically like professionals, they're usually coming to me and saying, "Hey Skyler, I need to develop my layup package," or, "Hey Skyler, I need to develop my shot." It's usually offensive skillsets like... Most players by this time, they know Xs and Os. They know how defenses are going to rotate, but from my standpoint, from my experience, I find it's mostly the footwork and just being a little more efficient. So they'll think they need this or that, and we'll work on that, but then I see these underlying foundational things that need to be worked on before they can get that layup package fixed, or before they can get that separation from those defenders that they're looking for in their ball screen situation, and so it really keeps coming back to footwork, and not that they have bad footwork, it's just it needs to be a little more efficient, and it's just in the fine, small details. That it's literally moving, having your feet outside of your hips an inch or two wider further when you're dropping into an attack stance, when you're attacking to the basket, or you're coming up on a secondary defender. It's just little things like that within footwork and balance that I find myself working on time and time again with even these more experienced players.

Craig: Yeah, there's issues that go across different skill levels and it's kind of funny how bad habits form early and you can then break them of those bad habits. It's kind of interesting. You know, a question that I've got it how do you find new clients? Let's talk about growing your business a little bit.

Coach Halford: Yeah.

Craig: Where do they come from?

Coach Halford: Yeah, so when I first started out, I was actually part of a group called Utah Empires, a U basketball team. And a guy I know played in college asked me to help coach and so, I got in touch with a lot of players, a lot of parents, that way through coaching various teams and various players. And then, I also just went to the local high school coach that I knew and got in on a parent meeting and just told people that I was starting this new business, that I was going to be training. And that really got it rolling. And from there on out, it was pretty much just people talking to their friends and referring them to me. I, obviously, started social media accounts and was able to pull in a few more here and there through my social media. I've done a little bit of paid advertising here and there but it's mostly been word of mouth, I would say, in picking up clients. I have some guys that will come down from Idaho that will come see me, Nevada. I've had a client of mine from Kansas who comes in every now and then. It's funny, being here at BYU, just with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, there's just a lot of people that come in and know me through that from various locations because they followed BYU. I don't know if you guys ever watch BYU games on the road but you'll hear a lot of folks cheering just because of that connection through the church. So, there will be ... I've had, and I would say majority of my clients are here in Utah. I have, like I said, occasional ones that come in from nearby states as well.

Craig: Great. So, let's talk a little bit more about social media. I know Hustle, we've been following you for a while and I know you've got a pretty substantial Instagram following. How do you build that following? What's your strategy around that?

Coach Halford: Yeah. So, when I just started out, and I've just been trying to learn more and more about that, because I definitely am not an expert in it, but have just done ... My wife, she's actually a communications major, so she's been helping me with it. But just really trying to connect with everyone. Literally, every space that you can think of in the world of sports and basketball and specific, whether it's commenting on every post, replying to people who message me to try and build trust. And then, just posting as much as I can every day to try and build that trust and try to get people to ultimately ... Because that's the number one thing is you need to have an audience that trusts you and finds you credible. And for me, it just kind of continued to roll out, obviously reaching out to other influencers and friends in the space that you know that can help you. Either promote and help you or collaborate with them. Just trying to do as much as I can with those different things: Collaborations, reaching out, building trust by giving free content, by giving free feedback. Trying and making as many things as I can free so people trust and want to work with me and see that I'm really trying to help them. That's, I feel like, has been a ... Those have been contributors to the building of that social media side of the business.

Tristan: Definitely. I'd say so, and it's universal. Instilling that mentality in folks whether it's shooting, whether it's learning how to shoot, you need to have that important step there. So, obviously here, going right off of social media here at Hustle, we are big in the technology game and how it can really help improve our games and how it can help take us into the next step, the future of basketball, so to speak. The future of all sports training. Where do you see the future of training and technology going and is there anything you use now that you think really helps when training your clients?

Coach Halford: That is such a great question. A couple of great things that I've seen lately that I really like is that new Home Court app. Have you guys seen that? Developed by Steve Nash and a few others.

Craig: Yes.

Coach Halford: Have you guys seen that at all?

Tristan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Coach Halford: So, I've been using that with some of my clients. I really like ... The thing is it's obviously the game of basketball has become very data driven and the more data you can put into ... I feel like it's more so, they have the Xs and Os and the situations of where you're successful in this play or not. But I think ... I had a conversation with a fitness trainer that I know recently and talking about how the world of individual training in basketball can get better. And it's somehow finding a way to get data involved in personal training in repetitions that you're doing with whatever it is that you're working on to where ... and I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly but to where you can see exactly what your growth is, you can see exactly where, pinpoint, where you need to improve. And I feel like it's to compare it, what I'm trying to say in the fitness world, you've got your Force Plays that are showing you, "Okay, I'm this explosive from this position. Okay, we've been doing X amount of workouts, these types of workouts, and you've increased this much. Okay, we're heading in the right direction, we need to continue with these workouts versus other workouts that you may be trying to do where other muscles that you're targeting." And if there could be a way to shift that to individual training and track more of the movements of what you're doing with basketball, I feel like that could really help grow the game of basketball and make it even more data driven than it is. But that's just what I've been thinking about recently with this friend of mine but obviously, I don't have the whole scope to figure out how I would do that.

Tristan: Who does?

Coach Halford: But that's my idea of what it might look like moving forward.

Tristan: No, I'm with you. So, with your clients are you usually filming them and walking them through ... Taking a look at the film afterwards of walking them through where they can improve? Or is it all verbal and in front of them?

Coach Halford: Oh no. You have to have ... You have to have video feedback. And it's so easy nowadays. You can't go without it. You have your phone. Literally, I just whip out my phone and I can record every single player that's in a session. And then, it also helps, from a coaching perspective, to convince the player what they're doing. Sometimes players will be like, "Oh, I don't feel like I'm doing that. No, my shot feels fine." And then, you show them and they're like, "Oh wow." And it kind of instills that trust again from a coaching perspective. But yeah, every time, every training, I have my phone out and we're videoing. We stop. We watch the footwork. We watch what's happening and we critique and we teach and we learn that way. And I don't just let these guys continue to just run through drills and run through lines because then they're just building bad habits. So, we film it, we watch it, and we go and do it again until we can get it right.

Tristan: That's what it's all about, repetition, repetition, repetition.

Coach Halford: Absolutely. Yes, sir.

Tristan: Coach, we definitely appreciate your time here today. Really quick, before we let you go, we'd like to do a little rapid fire session that we do with all our guests.

Coach Halford: Okay.

Tristan: We're going to throw it at you. It's going to be a catch and shoot type of drill. You're going to have to just chuck it up there.

Coach Halford: I like it.

Tristan: But we'll know that you've got the right form down that you're definitely nailing all these ones.

Coach Halford: These are my kind of drills. I like it. We'll see how well I do.

Tristan: I'd say so. We'll start off easy. Favorite sports movie of all time, Coach?

Coach Halford: Favorite sports movie, Space Jam. Michael Jordan-

Craig: Isn't there a new one coming out?

Coach Halford: I think there might be. There might be actually but.

Craig: Awesome. So, who is the coach across any sport that you admire the most?

Coach Halford: Oh man, across any sport that I admire the most. Wow. Wow, and this is supposed to be rapid fire, sorry guys.

Tristan: You're good.

Coach Halford: Man, you know, I'll shout out my own head coach that I had, Coach Dave Rose. He was so inspiring to me because I don't know if you guys know his story, but he had a very rare form of cancer that not too many people get through, and he was such a competitor not only in basketball but just fighting through that. And I know everyone these days, I feel like, knows someone or knows someone who knows somebody that has cancer and how hard it is to get through. And man, he fought through that thing and pushed and pushed and pushed and he's still here today. And it's because he's such a fighter. So, he's a big time mentor to me.

Craig: Yeah, that's great.

Tristan: Wow. Love to hear that story. Absolutely. All right, let's ask you here. What is your favorite basketball shoe of all time?

Coach Halford: The Nike Hyperdunks that Vince Carr used to wear back in the day. They had hyper shocks. I don't know if you guys remember those.

Tristan: Yeah, I do.

Coach Halford: All time favorite. They had the little force shocks on the back. Oh man.

Tristan: I used to think they'd be like a pogo stick kind of thing, just make you bounce.

Coach Halford: And I always was convinced I could jump like five inches things higher with those things on. They had springs in them. But they were definitely my favorite pair of shoes of all time.

Tristan: Nice. Thinking about your-

Coach Halford: Yeah, absolutely. Love those ones. I was thinking of one that was close to it and I was like, "No, it's the Hyperdunks. It's those."

Tristan: Nice. So thinking about the players that you train, what's one mistake that you see players making in the off season that causes a setback going into the next year?

Coach Halford: Oh, it's not enough work. I mean, that's plain and simple, it's just not enough work. I can tell the players who either take a break ... Like some people will come to me for three or four months and then it's like, "Okay, we're going to take a break and work on our own." And that's what I try and tell my players, "You've got to put in the work by yourselves." Usually people will come see me, sometimes once a week. Sometimes three times a week. But the biggest mistake is players just not putting in enough time because you can see it, you can tell when they come back from a summer as a coach or come back from three months when you haven't really seen them. You know who's been working and who hasn't. It's pretty apparent.

Craig: I'd say so. All right, Coach, last one here. I'm sure you've gotten the question before. If you could play one-on-one versus any NBA player, past or present, who would it be? That's not what I'm going to ask though. I'm going to ask if there's any NBA player past or present that you could take out to dinner or to take out just to walk around and really gain some knowledge from them and absorb the knowledge that he's got to impart on you. Who would it be?

Coach Halford: Oh hands down, Michael Jordan. Hands down. Hands down.

Craig: I saw that one coming.

Coach Halford: I'm still a big Michael Jordan fan. I know you guys knew the answer before. I was thinking either him or Kobe because Kobe Bryant, he's very ... You see him come out with his new book and he's got lots of wisdom. But I would just like to pick Michael Jordan or Kobe's brain apart and just see ... just ask him every question in the book that I possibly could think of. Yeah, for sure, one of those two, but Michael Jordan wins.

Tristan: I figured it was leaning that way. I didn't know if being a Jazz guy it might be Malone or Stockton or one of those guys from back in the day but ...

Coach Halford: Yeah. No, Michael takes the cake.

Tristan: Obviously, yeah. You've got to go with the great one, that's for sure. Well Coach, appreciate your time here again tonight. Before we let you go, let's hear where we can find you. Social media, website, all that. Let's hear it all.

Coach Halford: Yeah, absolutely. So, on Instagram it's @HalfordHoops as well as on Facebook you can find us at Halford Hoops. My website is www.halfordhoops.com. I've got great drills, online trainings there, that you can check out. I just came out with a new one for a three point shooting workout. So, it's got some good stuff there so you can check it out.

Tristan: Perfect. Thanks, Coach. And that's Halford, H-A-L-F-O-R-D.

Coach Halford: O-R-D, yep.

Tristan: When you're searching it on the social media and online as well. Coach, thank you again. I'm sure we'll touch base with you a little bit down the line but until then, keep shooting and we'll talk to you soon.

Coach Halford: We'll do. Hey, thanks guys. Thanks for having me.

John Willkom walked on to the Marquette Golden Eagles basketball team.

Tristan: All right, welcome in, everyone! We have with us, on the line, Mr. John Willkom. John -- he is an author, a coach, and a former player at Marquette University. He's the author of a recent book called Walk-On Warrior: Drive, Discipline, and the Will to Win. You can find it on Amazon and wherever your books are sold. This book has been top of the college basketball charts on Amazon for the last 33 weeks, so you've got to think he's got something to say to us here. John, how are you doing tonight?

John Willkom: I'm doing great, guys. Thanks so much for having me on. I look forward to talking with you.

Tristan: Absolutely. I really appreciate you taking the time as well. I mean, let’s get right into the book here. It's obviously a bestseller. It's going really well for you. It's self-published, as well, which is just a little notch in your hat right there. It shows a little bit about your drive, discipline, and will to win when it comes to book selling and basketball playing. What gave you the idea to write this book, and walk us through what we're going to read in there?

John Willkom: So, I actually started writing this book 14 years ago, and even while I was a college student-athlete, I was writing down stories here and there, and kind of journaling things as I went along, really just for the thoughts of, "I need to remember this stuff so I can tell it to my kids someday." And so, kind of as the years went on, these stories compiled on my computer, but I never really got around to organizing them into anything that would amount to a book, much less even just a story that I wanted to tell. And so anyway, really the last couple years, my wife's a medical resident and she works long hours -- was on call working 100-plus hour weeks -- and I thought, "You know, I could either watch 100 NBA games this year, or actually do something productive with my time." And so, I really buckled down and turned this into a real book, really not with the motivation to want to sell books, but I would go to bed at night and I just thought to myself, "There's probably a lot of kids out there -- a lot of teens especially -- that could benefit from my experiences, some of the things I went through growing up in a small town, but having that dream to play Division I college basketball; and so I decided to share it, and just going through the journey of obviously creating a book and a cover, and marketing it, has been a real learning experience for me, but certainly a fun one.

Tristan: We definitely know where you're coming from there; obviously at Hustle, we're all about teaching these kids and forwarding their games any way we can, through this podcast in an audio medium, through the app in a visual medium, and then through your book, we can certainly get the idea of what it's truly like to take your talents to the next level. Now, tell us a little bit about that walk-on experience. You started at a smaller college -- D2, if I'm not mistaken -- you made the transfer over to Marquette, where you thought you might just be the basketball manager, and all of a sudden, you find yourself there in the lineup for the Golden Eagles. Tell us a little about that story.

John Willkom: So, I was a good high school player. I was a three-time All-Conference player in central Wisconsin; got a Division II scholarship in Minnesota and played my freshman year there, and played quite a bit, had a good year, but just wasn't happy being in a rural environment. And so, I really wanted just to transfer to a bigger school that was closer to home. My dad had been a student at Marquette in the '70s, and was actually a student there during their one and only National Championship in 1977; so, growing up as a child, Marquette basketball was kind of a part of my upbringing. And when I thought about just who I would want to play for -- like, the John Willkom dream wasn't just to play college basketball, it was to play college basketball at Marquette. So, when I was looking at schools to transfer to, Marquette just made the most logical sense. And I don't think my parents were financially thrilled with that, because I basically went from a free education to having to fork out a ton of money to go to a private school, but I had the intention of simply being a team manager and helping out with summer camps. During those summer camps, I would play with the guys at night, and it got to the point where one day Director of Basketball Operations Brian Wardle came up to me and just said, "You've got two months and we'd like to have you try out to be a walk-on here, and we have no idea if you can cut it, but basically when you leave camp at the end of this week, and come back to school in a couple months, we're going to see if you have what it takes." And so, I certainly -- just having played with those guys the previous few weeks -- I knew I had the ability to play at that level, but the conditioning and the workouts and everything was so amplified from what I was used to; even though my work ethic had really gotten me to that point, so I wasn't shy of working hard. But it's a whole another level, it's a whole another experience, especially when it comes to strength and conditioning; so, I basically showed back up and -- I talk about this in the book, but -- that first strength and conditioning session was absolutely brutal. I think, for an hour straight, I just wanted to quit at every point. But it was the strength coach's job to essentially break me down and to show me what type of experience this was going to be, and you know, really over the course of that year, I think, as much as I developed physically -- and I went from, I think I was 159 pounds when I showed up; I was 177 pounds at the end of the season; my body fat had gone down to about five percent, so I was in tremendous physical shape -- but I was just so much tougher mentally, knowing that whatever they put in front of me, I feel like I had the ability to overcome it.

Tristan: Yeah, so let's talk a little bit more about walk-ons. I know you touch on this in the book, but what kind of advice do you have out there for any potential listeners who are considering becoming a walk-on? Or, you know, we've got a lot of coaches that listen to the podcast, coaches who are mentoring and working with potential walk-on players; you know, what advice do you have for them?

John Willkom: The first thing I would say is I think the walk-on role has kind of gotten magnified almost in the wrong way, simply because you see games on TV and you see these guys waving towels and dancing crazy, and everyone's like, "Wow, that's a walk-on!" When I played, it certainly wasn't like that. I was treated the same as everyone else on the team. The only difference is I wasn't getting scholarship. But even when I started, Coach Tom Crean was the coach at that time at Marquette, and is now the head coach at University of Georgia. He brought me into his office, and he just sat me down and said, "I'm going to coach you like everybody else, and if you're not comfortable with that, tell me that; but I'm going to get on your case. I'm going to scrutinize every detail, just as I would with anyone else. We're going to break down film. We're going to work on every weakness of your game." So, I always appreciated just that mindset, because I was there not to be a cheerleader; I was there to compete and contribute, and so I always valued, I guess, playing for a guy whose mentality of the walk-on role was that.

Craig: So, with walk-ons, you know, we don't typically think of a path into professional basketball afterwards, but that happens sometimes. Can you tell us a little bit about the different opportunities that come up for walk-on players after college?

John Willkom: Sure, yeah, I would say that, again, for people listening to this that are players, coaches... At the end of the day, if you're a great player, the one thing that I didn't realize -- especially growing up in a smaller town -- is the amount of professional basketball opportunities available to people, outside of the United States. You know, I'm turning 35 years old this week, and I still have former college teammates that are playing professionally overseas, and get paid to play the game that they love. And so, I guess, growing up as a teen, you often think that it's the NBA or it's a regular job; and the reality is that there are so many good professional leagues all over the world that will pay you to play basketball, and I've had a lot of friends, and even kids that I've coached now, that are playing overseas. So, I would keep that in mind just as you think about, I guess, what you could be and what college basketball could be for you as you plan out your future. It could certainly cascade into a much longer journey if you're good enough and that's what you want to do. So, I think, that part of it's exciting; also say just that... You know, playing basketball is such a unique privilege, and I think sometimes -- you know, we forget this as we get older -- but when you're a teen, you just want the opportunity to play. It doesn't matter whether you're on scholarship or you're a walk-on, or Division I, II, III, NAIA; you want to be out there, and I think we've seen this with even a team like Murray State and Ja Morant, where people have talked about, "Go where you're appreciated, go where you're wanted, and go where it's a good fit for you and your skillset." I think that's a big part of just the college decision today that kids often overlook; it's not about the hype and it's not about looking good on social media, but really find that good fit and find a system that's best for you.

Tristan: Let's get a little bit post-college. You did get into a little bit of coaching afterwards. Who were some of your mentors, and can you tell us a little bit about what you learned from each of them as you made that transition from playing to coaching?

John Willkom: So, my first coaching job was a varsity assistant job in Milwaukee, ironically at a high school called Milwaukee-Marquette High School. It's an all-boys school, and the head coach there was a former graduate assistant at Duke, ironically, in the early '90s that had actually been there during their back-to-back National Championships, so he had been there at an unbelievable team to be a student at Duke; you know, he knows Christian Laettner.

Tristan: Laettner, Hurley, all those guys... Grant Hill.

John Willkom: Hill, all of them. So, to be around that, and then to eventually come back to Milwaukee... He coached at his alma mater high school... It's pretty cool. But what made this guy unique is that he was actually paralyzed at the age of 16, and not from some freak accident; but he woke up one day and he couldn't get out of bed, and eventually his mom took him to the doctor and ran some tests, and they found out that he had a spiral aneurysm when he was sleeping; so, essentially, part of his spine exploded, and he's been unable since the age of 16 and is now in his 50s. And to be around a guy like that every day, just really puts so much of life in perspective. But I'm not saying anything like this to patronize him, certainly; he has an unbelievable basketball mind. He taught me so many things from being around Coach K; kind of that quiet intensity -- you know, even just watching film at the high school level -- that was just different than what I had experienced as a player at Marquette, and he's certainly been a big influence on me even years later as a professional.

Tristan: Wow, that's certainly some story there! Definitely somebody you want taking you under your wing, when they have such a sharp basketball mind, no matter what the physical limitations. Now, what was maybe the biggest lesson you learned in transitioning from the playing to the coaching side of basketball? You mentioned the quiet intensity; was there a specific lesson that maybe you started to impart on your players as you got more into it?

John Willkom: I think one of the biggest things that is often forgotten is that when these kids are in high school, I mean, they're kids. And as much as we, as coaches, want to treat them like men and we say that stuff verbally to these guys, their personalities are childish in a lot of ways. So, I think that the ability to kind of meet them as people, find out who they are, get to know them on a personal level... Goes a long way, whether you're coaching high school kids, college kids, even pros; so, I think that's a big thing. The other thing that I took from Marquette, and I think probably the biggest thing that I can translate to my life, and anybody can translate... Was just that, Tom Crean used to always talk about fear. And he used to always say that, "Fear either motivates you or it paralyzes you." And he was so right; I mean, we would literally have drills set up where we would play up to a certain many number of points, or there would be a dedicated end to a drill, and there would always be a winner; so, every drill we did had a winner. And the losers would do pretty brutal conditioning; so, you kind of had that choice mentally... If you were, let's say, playing up to seven in a game of full court one-on-one, and you were down six to two, do you kind of just let a guy drive in and score, and save up a little energy, so that you could go run your sprints? Or do you continue to battle, knowing that you're going to expend a lot of energy, and then have to do the conditioning and maybe not make it, so you have to do it again? Those are just interesting, kind of mental games, that you play with yourself; and the more that you go through stuff like that, the more that you just don't even think about anymore. You compete as hard as you can until you eventually win or lose, and then you just run the sprints. And so, I think that, you know, to say that... At the beginning, I probably would have said, "Yep, go ahead and score and beat me seven to one." But as I got older and just went through the program, the more that I might lose six to four but just keep playing hard the whole time.

Tristan: I've got a question about how you coach across different skill levels. You coach youth players, you've coached in the pros, you've coached college. How do you adjust your strategy based on the skill level of the players that you're coaching?

John WIllkom: I think a lot of it is just figuring out what the fundamentals necessary to succeed at that level are. Then, obviously, as you get players that are more skilled and older, there's just a lot more polish that goes into it. Again, coaching players in high school, college, professional level, you're looking at very minute details in terms of how do we improve small aspects of the game? Whether it's around their footwork, or their pivoting, or how you catch the ball when you're preparing to shoot, it's much more detail oriented versus ... I actually almost enjoy coaching younger kids better because they're so hungry to learn. In a lot of cases, they haven't been taught a lot of bad habits, so it's kind of like you're painting with a fresh canvas, and you can teach things the right way from the ground up.

Tristan: When working with youth players within Hustle, we find a lot of coaches that are working with youth players, we have a lot of youth players that download the app. What are some of your favorite drills for youth players that really make an impact?

John WIllkom: I would say, one thing that I was really pushed as a youth was around being able to handle a basketball. I think that whether you're a guard or a post player, being able to handle the ball at a young age is really what separates the good players from the bad ones. You have to be able to dribble the ball. Even growing up in Wisconsin where, six months out of the year there's snow on the ground and it's hard to maybe find a job, I spent most of my evenings downstairs in a cement basement, just doing dribbling drills. Whether it's around cones, or chairs, or various chains of direction work, but just getting really comfortable with both hands, being able to start, stop, change direction, change speeds. All those things, I think are ... THere's so many drills out there that teach those skills, but I would just encourage people to mix it up. Just like lifting weights as an adult, your body adjusts quickly, so the more that you can challenge yourself with different things so it's not always the same, probably, the better.

Tristan: Yeah. Tell us about Playmakers Basketball? I know that's a group that you're involved in, and started up. Tell us a bit about that?

John WIllkom: So, when I was a senior in high school, I had that entrepreneurial gene. I'd been to so many great camps as a player, and I thought, wouldn't it be cool to take the best of all these camps and bring it to my hometown? I recruit a couple other players from the area, and also a local coach that I knew well and we started our own basketball camp. That first year, we maybe had 100 kids show up and it was great. We actually had a friend come and DJ the camp, so it was high energy, kinda fun. At third year, we had probably 700 kids so we had to break this up into multiple gyms and sessions. It was unbelievable.

Tristan: Wow.

John WIllkom: By the fourth year, I was a senior in college and we actually set up a full summer camp circuit in the Midwest, where we would go to a different city each week and run these camps. We probably served more than 3000 kids during that summer, but it was just such an awesome way to share everything that we had learned, the talents that we had with all these kids that were hungry and had been ... That was us, 10 years before that. Basically, it grew from there. So, Playmakers Basketball Camp was the start, and then as we developed a name for ourselves, it naturally grew into an AAU program, first and foremost, for kids in central and northern Wisconsin that just didn't have maybe as many opportunities as kids in urban areas. It's since branched out. We have teams from grades six through 12, in both the boys and girls sides, and they play in tournaments regionally and occasionally travel nationally. It's been an awesome way to bring a mentality of fundamentals to practices, so it's not just like a roll the ball out and let's play type of organization, but also giving these kids exposure that the highest level.

Tristan: We are talking to John Willkom, author of Walk-On Warrior: Drive, Discipline, and the Will to Win. Obviously, he's got the coaching background, he's got the playing background being on a walk-on there at Marquette. Tell us about your favorite memory as a walk-on? Was it the first game, walking out onto the court hearing all those fans? Was it a certain practice where Kareem really got under your skin? Tell us a bit about that.

John WIllkom: I don't know if it was my favorite memory, but the memory that sticks with me the most is, we were losing at half time of a game. This was a game that I had not appeared in, so I was just sitting in the locker room. Typically, we'd go in there, we'd talk as players. Coaching staff would go into a different room, and a few minutes later they would come into the room and basically address what we need to change in the second half. Coach Kareem stormed into the locker room, and the first thing he says is, "John Willkom, stand up." I'm sitting there thinking, like, why in the world would he tell me to stand up? I haven't played a minute. So, I stand up and he just chewed me out for about five straight minutes about how I'd been screwing around all week, how that type of mentality doesn't help the team. I didn't prepare the guys well enough by scouting reports, and the things that I had been doing practice. I just got an absolute earful, storming out of the room. The funniest part is that I was backing up an All American point guard, his name is Travis Deaner, who'd actually go on to play in the NBA for six seasons. Travis looks at me and we just started laughing. He just said, "This is great because every future game that I'm playing terrible, he's just going to blame you." So, we laughed about it. The funny thing is, we actually won the game. When I went home and thought about it that night, I was actually angry but I also thought it's pretty cool that he, number one, cares enough about my contribution that he would even say that. It kind of goes back to what I said earlier, which is just that he certainly valued my contribution, he certainly valued me being part of the team. He was making a point that everything that every one of us did, whether it was in the games, or in practice, mattered to the outcome. It was a good life lesson, and something I even try to pass on to players that may not get a lot of playing time. Their contributions do matter, and bringing your best to practice sometimes is the way you contribute best to the team.

Tristan: I'll bet. Yeah, it's like you said, he treated you like a regular player and that's what mattered in the end. For sure, that's what got you to the forefront of his mind as he was making that speech at haLftime, I'm sure. Let me ask you something. Here at Hustle, we are all about the technology and advancing the game through that method. In your coaching experience, what kind of technology have you implemented for your kids, and where do you see the future of that technology and training going?

John WIllkom: Yeah, unfortunately I worked at a lot of almost low income schools, so I haven't had a lot of access to that. Even as early as probably 2006, we were creating digital videos and things like that, digital manuals to share with players, and I certainly think that's a huge deal. There's so many cool technologies out there, whether it's from a scouting standpoint, NBA statistical software that just informs decision making. I think that the key thing is that I think you have to strike a balance between finding something that's relatable to kids while at the same time saying, you've still got to put in the work. Whether you're watching a demonstration live, or you're watching it through a live stream somewhere, at the end of the day, you've got to go out and execute that stuff on your own. I certainly think there're tons of opportunities there. I love what you guys are doing. I think that the more people that can get things as they want to consume it at the right times is certainly a value.

Tristan: We appreciate that, always. Let me ask you, before we get into our rapid fire round, here, we do have the book Walk-On Warrior available on Amazon for you folks. If there's one thing you want your readers to walk away with after reading this book, what would that be?

John WIllkom: You know, the thing with this book is that I didn't necessarily want to write a book. That's being 100% honest. I had written down things that were 100% real and authentic. There was really a fine line there between you don't want to reveal the inner workings of a locker room, but at the same time, you want to tell an authentic story. I would say that for people who are looking for a recap of games, I would say go back and check the box scores. This book is not that. If you want a deep look into what it's actually like, number one, to have the opportunity to play divisional basketball, to what it's like going through a season, in terms of what your daily schedule looks like, that's what this is. So, I think it's really a no holds barred, real life experience that I hope other people can read it and walk away inspired, and just think, you know, if John can do that, there's no reason that I can't. Also, if you're 13 or 14, and you're struggling with, what should I actually be doing if I've got two hours a night to practice? Hopefully you can take some drills and ideas from that, because there's a lot of stuff in there just in terms of how I maximized my time and how I became a better athlete. I think that people could benefit from that.

Tristan: Yeah, I'd say so. I'd say John is certainly a good example of that, for sure. Let's get into our rapid fire round, here, before we let you go. John, real quick, we're just going to throw some questions at you, and whatever first thing that comes to your mind, you let us know what that is. We'll just get right into it. Let's just segue right out of there, right out of talking about your book. What's the toughest part of writing a book?

John WIllkom: Probably the editing. You have ideas in your head, but after you reread them several times, especially after long nights of writing, you're like, wow. I can't actually put that in front of somebody, I need to clean it up. It's the least amount of fun, and probably the hardest.

Craig: I've got a question. What's your favorite basketball shoe of all time?

John WIllkom: You may not know what this is, but it was called the Nike MZ3. You should look these up. They had this little shiny plate on the side. I was probably 13 years old, and I had a pair of these. I always thought they were the most comfortable, actual game shoe that I ever wore.

Tristan: Oh, yeah. I'm looking at them right now. Those are shiny. I love it. That's bringing the attention to yourself, that's how you really got spotted by Kareem, I'll bet. Let me ask you, what's your favorite sports movie of all time?

John WIllkom: This is a super easy one. It's Field of Dreams. I get emotional every time I watch that movie.

Craig: If you build it, they will come.

John WIllkom: Absolutely.

Craig: So, at Hustle we're all about those sports drills and finding out the great places and great resources for that. Are there any YouTube channels that you like to check out for coaching tips?

John WIllkom: I don't spend a lot of time on YouTube, but I spend a ton of time on Twitter. I think there's always different group chats. There's so many coaches on there that share drills and experiences, and clinics, that I would definitely check out.

Tristan: This isn't really a rapid fire question, but I'm just curious. What was the most unexpected thing, becoming a walk-on at Marquette?

John WIllkom: We got free Gatorade every day.

Tristan: Oh!

John WIllkom: That was great.

Tristan: Absolutely.

John WIllkom: You know, you get a ton of free gear. We got visited by Nike reps, just super cool. I still think I'm bitter about ... They promised us a custom blue and gold shoe that never came.

Craig: The MG3, was it?

John WIllkom: It was not MG3. So, there was that. The other thing was that, and this was probably the most unexpected of the whole experience was that, after I left Marquette, I actually ended up working for Rick Majerus, who was one of the most unique individuals probably ever to coach basketball. He spent I think 15 years at Utah, and was at St. Louis, and has now passed away. He was an amazing guy, and there are some quirky stories in the book about my time with him that I think a lot of people will really get a kick out of.

Tristan: There you go. We'll certainly have to give it a read, here.

John WIllkom: He's always a character.

Tristan: I'd say so. He was a journeyman, himself. He certainly made the rounds and devoted his whole life to coaching. He was, I'm sure, a great mentor, like we said earlier, to have. Seemed to be a trend, here, as we continue these interviews. Appreciate your time here again, John. I heard you say, real quick before, that you're all over Twitter a bunch. Let's hear the handle, and let's hear one more time the brief description of your Walk-On Warrior: Drive, Discipline, and the Will to Win?

John WIllkom: So, the book is available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and several other online channels. My Twitter handle is @JohnWillkom. I look forward to interacting with people. Like I said, the book is raw, it's authentic, there's a lot of stories in there, not only about basketball but just about meeting people. I think that action leads to action, and so when you're out doing things ... I would go on to live in several places, and one was Salt Lake City, Utah. Met folks like Aaron Rogers randomly. Some really interesting stuff in there, but I think that it's certainly inspiring to people that you just got to get of your couch sometimes and go do something with the talent that you have. So many people tell me that they're not good enough yet to do something. I would say, today's the day. You have enough ability, we're always getting better. Go out and do what you can with what you have.

Tristan: Dedication. I'd say you retain that, and that's what we're trying to impart on all our athletes here, is that try to get to the next level, as well. John, appreciate the time, again. The Twitter handle is @JohnWillkom, with two Ls. Everyone, make sure you go ahead and give him a follow. Head over to Amazon, check out Walk-On Warrior: Drive, Discipline, and the Will to Win. John, I'm sure we'll check in with you down the line here, but appreciate you coming on again tonight, and take care.

John WIllkom: Thanks so much guys. Go Bucks!

Tristan: Go Bucks! Let's go!

Craig: Have a good one.

John WIllkom: Have a good one. See you later.

Richard Montgomery High School Head Coach David Breslaw | Photo Credit: prephoops.com

Tristan: All right. Welcome in everybody. We are excited to be joined by Coach David Breslaw . He is the head coach at Richard Montgomery High School, has been the head coach there for some time now. Took over after a brief stint there at BCC. An RM grad, yourself, down there at Montgomery County, Maryland. Know you folks made a decent run into the 4A State Championship playoff this year. Coach, tell us a little bit about that. Tell us a little bit about yourself here, your transition into coaching here from college, and what this whole process has been like. Just give us a little background on yourself here.

David: I always foresaw myself as eventually going to be a coach in high school. It was always my high hopes I'd coach at my alma mater. I'm lucky enough to have that opportunity. Now going into college, I had some opportunities to play. Then chose not to go that route. I always made sure to stay close to some high school games, and was able to always attend some games wherever I was at. Eventually when the opportunity presented itself at Richard Montgomery, where I also teach history, I jumped on that. Definitely was able to profit and be able to coach some great players. We've had a good amount of success over the past couple of years.

Tristan: I'd say so, yeah. By my calculations over an 800 win percentage, creeping towards that 900 realm. Like we said you, you've set a couple of records there. The school wins record there now, is a 25 for you guys?

David: 24 in a 22 game season with playoffs.

Tristan: There it is.

David: Yeah.

Tristan: Now you actually went to school out there at the University of Pittsburgh, and even when you were out there, you were attending high school games and doing a little scouting yourself, and maybe prep then and shadowing some coaches out there. Tell us what that was like.

David: Oh, I always kept track of who was on some of the top teams. I was lucky enough to, at University of Pittsburgh, there used to be a school shutdown now, it's called Schenley High School. Back in late nineties they were nationally ranked. That was a quicker walk then to some of my classes to go to Schenley high school. That was always a great atmosphere out there. I wish I could remember some of those players. They used to come out to University of Pittsburgh, come out to our gym and play with us and give all the college kids run for their money. I'd go out there, which was again like right around the corner, and I'd go out to Beaver and see some of those games they have. They have a strong tradition out there, and also out to upper St. Clair and Fox Chapel. There's a lot of good teams out there. There was a lot of good coaches back then. Always trying to keep up with everything.

Craig: Yeah. Talking about your coaching journey, did you start out as an assistant coach or work your way up from youth teams into high school?

David: Right. Even student teaching, I was student teaching at North Gate High School in Bellevue. I was able to hang out with the basketball team a little bit up there, even though I graduate classes to attend. Then after that, I mean really there wasn't a year I wasn't coaching. Even my first year, I was teaching in Montgomery County. I was a little hesitant. I was a little overwhelmed, I think, with teaching., I remember there was a newspaper article pop or not newspaper article, but like an advertisement in the Washington Post popped up, just for a little private school. I was hesitant. My brother who also has been my assistant coach in the past, he was like, "What are you thinking?" He's like, "You need to need to contact them. You need to contact everybody." My younger brother, he kind of like guided me to a lot of connections and just pursuing a lot of opportunities that I had available to me. I coached it a little private school, Hebrew Academy. Then I had a friend who was coaching varsity. He was a state finalist coach and he's successful coaching. Montgomery County's name is Damon Pagram. I was friends with him, my brother was like, "Why aren't you coaching with him?" So I've learned a ton from him and. Then dominoes just fell from there.

Craig: You're having a ton of success. Let's dig into that a little bit, and how you approach coaching, and how you approach your team. Let's talk skills development. That's what the Hustle app really is all about. Let's say your at kind of the beginning of the season or you're just beginning working with your players after an off season. You know, how do you approach the start of the season? Are there any kind of drills or exercises you prefer to get your team ready to play?

David: Yeah, one of the first things I like to do is do a lot of no dribble games, to just answer it as literally as, as possible. I want it to be known that we're going to share the ball. That definitely is a good starting point for that. We'll play like three-on-three no dribble, four-on-four no dribble, five-on-five no dribble. Eventually from there am I give them a dribble. While the kids, in the beginning they don't like it, and they might not like it towards the end, they definitely learned to appreciate it. I don't let them really progress to the one dribble or the two dribble, whatever we're going to do after that until we've proven that we've exhausted the benefits of that drill. That's just the first thing that comes to mind.

Coach Breslaw

Tristan: Yeah. You focus on building that culture of selflessness in a way.

David: Yeah, absolutely, and also toughness. There's several other drills that we tend to do at the beginning of the season that are a little tougher. We definitely have to figure out who's even going to be on the team. I think that's a big thing. We see a lot of private schools. I'm always jealous because the first day of the season, everyone's always asking, it's not just the a private schools, but everyone's always asking everywhere, "You excited about the first day of practice?" I'm not because I got cut kids. I got to tell kids they can't play basketball. It's like the worst day of the season. It's like the worst couple of days of the season. I have to be certain that they're even convinced that they don't deserve to be on the team. I want that to be a mutual understanding. Of course sometimes that's not the case, but I got to make it obvious really belongs on team or not. So there's several other drills that we do.

Craig: Well actually before we go into that, let's talk about that a little bit more. Say one of our listeners has been cut from the team. They tried out, they didn't quite make it. What are some things that they can do in the off-season to prepare themselves for the next try, the next round.

David: Yeah. I even tell a lot of the same stuff to the players who are on the team who we get in a... We'll do like 6:00 AM workouts. Anybody who wants to work at 6:00 AM, that's like the only time we can get the gym. We live in a heavily populated area where our public school system, or the gym use is owned by the community and it's run by an outside agency. Just getting our gym is an issue for us to even like have workouts. There's all kinds of regulations on whether or not we're even allowed to have workouts at certain times of the year. 6:00 AM is always open. I see my players in there and, and they say they want to work out. They'll show up at like 6:00 AM, if they're lucky, they're getting up early enough. Then I give him the ball and I'm like, "Do you want a workout from me? Or are you going to handle this on your own?" I got to to see what they're all about. Then of course, all you see is them just shooting the ball, and getting a rebound. They're working on their threes or they say whatever they're working on. Then I'm like, "I'm not going to open up the gym. This is what you're going to be doing." This is the same thing I'd tell anybody who was cut. "I want to see... If you're not sweating, I mean, let's just start there. If you're not sweating off of your individual workout, if you're not challenging yourself, if you're not pushing yourself to be uncomfortable with the speed you're playing at, I really think you're wasting your time. Whoever's opening that gym, you're probably wasting their time too." The first thing that comes to my mind when I'm talking about a guy trying to prepare himself, play at whatever level they're at is just pushing yourself full-court, and just-going full court. If you want to take those jump shots, do with full-court and do it as fast as possible. Just dribbling up and down. I think one of the biggest things is using your imagination. It's imagining that the toughest defender you've ever played against is guarding you. You have to try to find a way to get past them. If you can't imagine that defense in front of you, if you can imagine the intensity that you need to bring, to get uncomfortable to get to the point where you are comfortable, then I can't see yourself really progressing to improve yourself.

Craig: Coach, thanks for sharing that with us. That's Really good insights there. Let's say you're working through the season. How do you adjust your coaching technique based on what the team's giving you, or based on the skills of the players that you've got? Is there a difference in strategy depending on what the team's giving you?

David: Yeah. Right now I'm working on what we're doing for this next team. We just finished our season about a month ago, and I'm already, with my assistant coach, ironing out all the details of how we're going to do things different next year. We're not going to be as big. We're graduating just two seniors, but they were 6'9" and 6'6".

Tristan: Wow.

David: Yeah. We're going to be smaller. We're not going to be small, but we're going to be smaller next year, and we're going to be a lot faster. We were really like pack-line oriented this past actually couple of years. We've been pack line for the past three years. We've been very methodical offensively, I feel, for the past a couple of years. This team ,with the amount of talent that I have and the amount of guys I want to use off the bench, we're definitely not going to be able to go that route. I'm not going be able to go pack line and run down the shot clock down to single digits. Then look down the bench and see eight guys that deserve playing time, and they're just sitting there while my team is running an offense for 25 seconds. I'm not looking forward to that kind of situation. We're re-working lot of things too. We're almost coming full circle from about four years ago, we had a similar team. Now we're going to back to more of that fast-paced offense, and a lot of pressing. We're definitely changing everything, really, coming this next year, despite the fact that we had a really successful season this past year.

Coach Breslaw providing on-the-court instruction to his players. | Photo Credit: prephoops.com

Tristan: Exactly. Yeah. You graduate two 6'5" plus guys in high school, that's definitely going to take a little bit of a toll. Hey, with comes a little bit more speed, a little change in the strategy. What do you know, before you know it, you were back in the postseason mix again. Real quick before I get to my next question, you mentioned a term there that some of our folks may or may not be familiar with. Can you just give us a quick overview on the pack-line defense and what you mean there?

David: Sure. We have an alum who, who his name's Ryan Kruger. He's in the G League. It's Fort Wayne Drive. He got a lot of the alumni from our school. We have a lot of coaches out there, and it's funny because we were talking basketball. We had like a little chalk talk and he was like, "Pack line is not the most unique defense." He's like, "Pack line is just defense. It's just what we play in the NBA. It's just what pack line is." I saw what he was saying, and it is very true. It's traditional defense, however there are some points that I think that separate it from what many schools do around the country. I think the first thing that comes to mind is you're not denying one pass away. Certainly that's not going to be the case always in the NBA. You're not denying one pass away. You're in what we call the gap, or what everyone calls the gap. You're not guarding the ball. Your one pass away, but you're looking at the ball. The whole thing on your mind is, "This guy's about to drive. If he drives to my side, I'm blocking that off. " I think that's the first thing to think about with the pack lines. You're not denying ball side. You're going to stop the next guy from driving. From there, everything kind of turns into just traditional defense.

Tristan: Yeah, just the one step ahead approach at all times, there.

David: Yep.

Tristan: We talked about that, instilling that strategy there is we get a season going. How do you adjust throughout the season? What changes in your preparation versus a couple of wins under your belt versus a couple of perhaps losses under your belt? We know that your program hasn't experienced that too much in recent past here, but what changes if anything?

David: Yeah. Well, I mean first of all, it sounds kind of silly, but our definition of a loss, and that's one of the biggest things I want to get across to our guys throughout the season. Our definition of a loss is not in the win-loss column. We'll win a game and we'll call that a loss. It depends on if we've accomplished what we wanted to do. If we lost a game, we might not call that a loss either. I mean, we play like... There's some teams in DC that are just insane. We're a public school. We don't have a recruiting budget, a travel budget, a sponsorship. We're going to play like a DeMatha Summer League. We're going to play DeMatha or like a Bishop O'Connell. For those that know, you just check the national rankings. We're going to play those teams and, and we're going to lose. We were lucky enough to play, last summer we played DeMatha. We played them and they were missing most almost... I think there are missing every starter and we actually got a win out of that. We might play them this summer, and we might lose by 30 that might be a win. If we did what we set out to do, we'll call that a win. We had one loss during the regular season this past year to a rival, Galesburg, who we were able to beat a couple times also this season. We lost by 20, and offensively that was a loss. Offensively, that was certainly lost. We held them at 55 points, and that was, I think, their lowest of the season. We went in. W we lost that game knowing that we were going to play them in the playoffs. We said, "Hey, we can do this job on defense. We're going to be okay, because we're not going to do as bad on offense." Our definition of a loss is definitely a big part of that answer to your question. Moving beyond that, we're always preparing for the strongest action from the other teams. We'd certainly, definitely want to know how they're guarding pick and roll. That's probably one of the first things that we want to figure out is how to guard the pick and roll, and also had to guard handoffs. This year and next year, hand offs are a big part of our offense. If they're going to be switching on handoffs, then those couple of days before the game, we're really going to a really talk about what are we going to do when they switch on hand offs. If they don't switch on hand offs than, than everyone's really happy.

Tristan: Yeah, really.

David: Yeah. That's the first thing that comes to mind from that question. Then, on that, of course we want to know if they're going to play zone and what kind of zones. I'd love to come up with an offense that you can just say, "We're going to run that offense against any zone," if it's a two-three, or three-two. But I don't think... I've seen some coaches try to do that. I don't think those really exist. If they do, I can't wait until I find out that offense. That's a big part too. If they're going to play zone, then of course we have to prep for that. We spend most of our time prepping for man. Lucky enough, we've been great shooters past couple of years and we haven't seen seen too much zone. Teams realized they're not going to be able to stay in the game to see if they're going to leave us open.

Tristan: Now let's say we're getting into the season here. We're midway through, maybe a skid of what you would consider a loss. Let's say you do hit that skid and there's something that needs to change there. Tell us about that process in terms of identifying what that change needs to be, and then implementing that change into the players based on their skillsets and you knowing what their educational skills are.

David: Yeah. I'm trying to think of maybe a good example, but just the processes certainly written out for us, and that's: We're going to identify the problem. We're going to identify the action that we need to either do an offense or guard on defense. We're going most likely turn that into a game. Let's say we realize... And that's something with my team right now. They're fast and they're not selfish, but we have an issue with like throwing backdoor passes. I've had teams where like, "This is the office we're running. We're going to do hand offs. We're going to try to get back doors off of it," and they just do it. I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm the greatest coach in the world." Then a couple of years later, or next year, we try to do the same thing. I'm like, "These guys can't make a backdoor pass. They don't have... " Like, "I told them exactly what they're supposed to do. They're not doing it." Obviously it's not going to come as easy every year. We're going to give them some tips. We're going to give them...,I have a whole gamut of points I'm going to make in my speech that I'm going to hopefully keep below five minutes, on what a successful backdoor is going to look like. We might run through it, just to go through the motions. Then of course I'm going to see all the players get tired with that. Eventually I'm going to have to make a game out of that, and that's what we're going to do next. We're going to apply points. We're going to assign points for successful back doors. There's no question that we're going to make it into a competitive game that hopefully the players don't find a way to cheat; which is always the case, and then we have to adjust the game. Luckily, I'm at the point now in my career where I've seen most cheats. We've adjusted and hopefully make the games foolproof. We have a player now who he seems to find every loophole in any game we ever come up with.

Tristan: There's always one.

David: He's improving. He's improving us, but it's frustrating.

Craig: That's funny. Yeah. Gamification, that's always important for young players. No doubt about it. Towards the end of the season, let's say you're approaching the playoffs. You might have some injuries on the team and certainly some fatigue from the players, what kind of adjustments do you make? What kind of drills do you do in practice during that point in the season?

David: Yeah, that fatigue is something real. I'm talking about like with mental fatigue. Of course the injuries are always going to be there, and I don't know what you do about that. If you can have some kind of advice and resources where you can talk about some pre-injury stuff, that's great. Luckily enough, we have also another great alum from Richard Montgomery is a Blair O'Donovan, who is right now the physical trainer for the Washington Wizards. If you Google his name, he's all over YouTube, and he has a lot of great stuff. A lot of times I'll consult with him as we go into the playoffs. You know, "What's the best way to go about this or that?" If you have a resource like that, a trainer like that, that's awesome. That mental fatigue is always there. Something that we recently started to do is, is bring up a lot of underclassmen on the varsity. That's a new thing that's going through our county because going back more than a couple of years, we had budget cuts and they cut the JV schedule a couple games. Everyone realized JVs done a month before varsity's done. Everyone's moving up their JV players, or they're just putting up their JV players because they're looking at JV as like, "This is not as grueling or not as a productive as it used to be." Now I've got these sophomores, or sometimes freshmen, and we're on like our 70th practice. We'll get in like 75 practices for the season. We'll be on our 60th practice and we're on our like 19th games and you can just see it, they're like, "Wow, this is... " We're in like late February and this is like every day since November. I think that's something that needs to be addressed. We'll try to find ways to alleviate that. We'll do things like just at the end of practice we might play like dodge ball, something that's nice team builder. Just something different,. Anything different. Then more than that, the kids are always begging me for it too. We do in the summertime and we do it in the preseason, they love yoga. I've used the DVD for it.

Craig: We've heard that before.

David: February especially with those injuries and they're bruised up there, they're begging for it. Like mid February. We've been doing it for several years now, and I'd say about the beginning of February. Actually even going as early as as like mid-January, they just start asking for it. They're like, "Please." We're really lucky that we have a girl's soccer player who's going to be great. Her last name is Heaven and she's a big D1 recruit for soccer. Her mother is a yoga instructor and she loves working our team. She comes in. She's the real deal. She can do all kinds of crazy stuff. She's built. She's way stronger name of our players. Yoga is huge for those types of situations.

Craig: Nice. Yeah, that is healing for sure. All right, you've walked us through the season, and the way that you approach it, and the way that you look at things. Here at Hustle, we look for ways to leverage technology to get the most out of players. So think about kind of the way that you coach and your overall plans for your teams. What role does technology play in your coaching today and what role do you see it taking on in the future?

David: Yeah, for today it just comes down to the camera. We tape probably about a dozen practices. I think practices are great for us to as coaches to look at what we've been doing. The players actually watch that, especially. I think it's huge for your players who are not getting that much playing time. Does any coach honestly believe that they're post even some game film, and the guy who is sitting at the end of the bench is going to watch that game film? Why would he do that? I mean, of course we have all kinds of arguments why he should. I live in the real world, and that kid's not watching that game tape. If you post practice, all of a sudden you. We use Huddle, and you can see how much they've watch. All of a sudden you post practice and that guy who has never played, he's all of a sudden, he's watched two hours of game tape. It's not a game tape, it's practice tape, but he's watched that. That's huge right there. The technology that comes along with Crossover and Huddle and the stats. They send stats back within 24 hours. They send us like shot charts. They send us all that. I think we have the platinum package. We had to fundraise for that. It's not cheap. Fundraising is always a big issue. Nevertheless, we're able to benefit off having that package. Those stats are awesome. You can break them down any way. Then what makes it even the best is you can click on... Like you'll go through the stats and it will say like, "15 turnovers." Well you just click on the 15 turnovers and it shows you a breakdown, shows you a cut up of all those turnovers. I think something that I saw early on in my career when, when all this technology wasn't out there, "We want to watch game tape." Well that meant everyone sitting down and we're watching the whole game. Well, coaches are trying to make a point about, "We're not doing a good job on the back doors." Well that's not coming until like the middle of the second quarter. Then actually, that time it was a good back door. Then third quarter, that's when the back doors start. That one was like at the end of the game. By that time we made 50 other points and the guys are like, "What are we... " We were all over the place. The only way I think you can watch game tape is if it's broken down, and make that game tape, probably I would say, no more than a half hour session. That's even kind of pushing it. Right? The technology that Huddle provides and Crossover, where you can just click on a button and then you see every turnover. You can even go for the whole season and click on a guy and say, "Every turnover he's made." So you'd get that guy you'd say, "Come on, let's, let's have some lunch.".

Craig: That's painful.

Tristan: He probably knows what's coming when coach asks him to lunch, that's for sure.

David: Yeah. Yeah. But just the ability to see that like that is... It makes you feel like... Well, first of all, it makes me feel like a professional. It makes you feel like you're in the NBA or something, that you have that access. That's definitely the first stuff that comes to mind with that question. I'd say for the future, Huddle's coming out with, I should get paid by Huddle for this, but they're coming out with this thing you mount on your gym floor. I'm sorry, your gym wall, and it's going to track the ball. You don't even need a film crew. We got to find managers or maybe ask a father or somebody to film our games. That's imperfect because they want to watch the games. There's always a play where they're watching the game and the camera's on an empty hoop. But for the future of technology, you've got this thing mounted on the wall. Then it's following the ball. Then it's automatically uploaded to Huddle. They're sending you set your stats by the next morning.

Tristan: Yeah, wow.

Craig: Yeah, that's cool.

David: Then beyond that, your imagination can... The way technology exponentially grows these days, you can imagine it's going to able to track players soon. Then you're going to be able to see the stats that we see in the NBA with how long are these guys around him during the game? What's their average speed? There's so many other things that can come out of that, where you're tracking individuals and setting benchmarks. The possibilities are absolutely endless.

Tristan: That's definitely a good point there, that mounting on the wall and be able to track player by player. Pretty soon it's going to be almost like we're playing 2K, there while we're watching films and reviewing. Real quick. Thanks again for your time today here, coach. We're gonna let you go here soon, but something we like to do with all of our guests is a quick rapid fire round, just to peel back the onion a little bit and really get to now who Coach Breslow is. We'll start it off here. We'll throw that fancy production music on in the background, and get into our rapid fire. Real quick coach, what is your favorite sports movie?

David: Cool. There's a movie... I was taking like obscure answers to these questions. There's this old movies, I want everyone to see it. It's one of the best basketball movies I think that's out there. It really spells out all the recruiting and the college experience. It's from like the 1970s it's filmed on a Colorado State University campus. It's called One-on-One. Henry Steele. That that movie is ahead of its time.

Tristan: Awesome.

Tristan: What is the best warm up music before a big game?

David: Oh man Ah, jeez. Whatever's good for player's hype. Okay. My songs is no way any kids go play it, but I like the Big Payback by James Brown. But yeah, what are the chances any kid in this century is going buy in to that.

Tristan: Right. Okay. All right, coach. Friday night. You don't have a basketball game going on. Where are you going to get dinner?

David: Wherever my wife tells me to.

Tristan: There it is. All right, coach. Well, definitely appreciate your time here today. Certainly talking about what you guys identify as a loss is a big help there. I think all this knowledge you've been able to drop on us here is definitely going to be a help to all our athletes as they're developing their game plans, developing the training plan. Definitely appreciate the time, once again.

David: It was a privilege, and happy to. Good luck in the future, guys.

Coach Brendan O’Connell poses with his players after winning the 2019 Maryland 4A State Championship

Photo Credit: 247Sports

Tristan: All right, welcome in, everybody. We got Coach Brendan O'Connell on the other line right now. Head coach at Eleanor Roosevelt High School, recent recipient of the 4A State Championship down there in Maryland. I believe that's a third time that they've actually picked up that title. Coach, how you doing today?

Coach O’Connell: I'm doing great, thanks for having me on.

Tristan: Absolutely, thanks for joining us. Has the hangover worn off? How are we doing after winning that third state championship, there?

Coach O’Connell: It feels good, it's going to feel good for a while.

Tristan: There we go. Are we still relishing on it, or we already onto next season?

Coach O’Connell: No, we don't start that fast. I'm still enjoying that season and enjoying going home at 3:00 every day with not too much to do.

Tristan: That is a nice little plus, I definitely agree with you in that realm. But it's not too long, though. I feel like maybe another week or so, we're already getting back into the training plans, back into the developing for next season.

Coach O’Connell: Yep. We usually start up right after Spring Break.

Tristan: There it is.

Craig: There. All right, then you're back into it. Start reserving that gym time, for sure.

Tristan: Coach, let's just get it started right there. Tell us about your start into this role here. I mean, you took over this program at a very, relatively, young age at, I believe, 24 years old. You took it over, you've been handling it since then. Tell us about that transition into coaching, your experience prior, and what drew you to the position.

Coach O’Connell: Yeah, well I didn't really know what I was going to do. I was in college, but I knew I wanted to teach. I figured that out about halfway through my time at the University of Maryland, and the first place I got a job teaching, out of college, was at Eleanor Roosevelt High School. And, I've always been into basketball and all sorts of sports, so I just started helping out with the team there. I coached JV for a season, assisted with the varsity, and then got lucky enough to get that job really early, and I've had it ever since.

Tristan: Okay, yeah. And then, so, when you took it over, I believe the school had, maybe, one state championship under its reigns. You kind of came in there, really changed the mindset, it looked like. At least, judging from the statistics realm, and really took over. Tell us about instilling that winning attitude in a team that you're just jumping into, young age. Maybe these kids are just a few years younger than yourself. Tell us how you really took hold of that position.

Coach O’Connell provides in-game feedback during a home game.

Photo Credit: Doug Kapustin/For The Washington Post

Coach O’Connell: You know, I get asked that a decent amount, and I don't feel like I have a great recipe, like, "Hey, this is what I can point to." I just feel like... Just trying to develop the attitude of working hard and caring about yourself and your school and representing your teammates well, and just... I mean, we just kind of dove into it there, and I look back, and it's not like... It all happened really fast, I was not expecting to get the head coaching job there, so it's not like... Like you said, I was 24 years old, I didn't have a great idea in my head, like I'd been an assistant for years, and this is how I wanted to run a program. It just kind of happened, so we just kind of dove in. But yeah, I mean, we were lucky, early on, to have... I've been really lucky to have a bunch of great assistant coaches, and then those first few teams of kids who just wanted to work hard and cared about winning, care about each other, and it just kind of evolved from there.

Craig: Yeah, so what did you do before the head coaching role? Did you start in youth coaching or assistant coaching anywhere before that? Or you kind of jumped right in?

Coach O’Connell: You know, I've worked at camps. I worked at a bunch of basketball camps growing up, in college, that sort of stuff, but yeah, I didn't have a ton of experience. I had a year helping out as an assistant, and then half a year coaching JV, and then we had a little situation at the school, and then I had a head coach, who... Sorry, I had a principal who just trusted and believed that I was the right guy for the job. Luckily, that's worked out.

Craig: Yeah, so what kind of advice would you have for other coaches who find themselves in a similar position? They're new, they're... High expectations of them, what would you say to them?

Coach O’Connell: If I would give any sort of advice, I would say, just be true to who you are. There's a lot of distractions these days, in terms of social media and parents and outside influence, and really just try to enforce the culture you want. I think it was super important, early on, that we had the right kids and right coaches and right parents in our program. And even if that would've meant, "Hey, here's one super talented kid that has a little bit of an attitude problem," cutting him. I think making sure you've got the right people to work with, every day, is super important.

Craig: Yeah, how do you instill a culture like that? How do you actually define the type of culture that you want to have within your program?

Coach O’Connell: That's like I was saying earlier. I don't know that I got a great answer for that. It just kind of happened. I feel like... I try to lead by example, a lot. I hope the kids, and other coaches in our program, see me working hard all the time and treating people the right way and being of high character, and I hope I can sort of set that example, but I don't know. If someone could write a boo on it, and just do it, everyone would do it. So, I recognize that I have been fortunate. I think, early on, that we had some people that bought in, and then it's just, sort of, now... It just sort of carries itself. The new incoming freshman look at the upperclassmen, and they sort of, you know, "Hey, this is how we do things here." And so... Luckily, we got off the ground running, early on, and now it just keeps rolling.

Tristan: There it is. Yeah, you set the tone early, and all of a sudden, what do you know? You're still... You're creating a little dynasty in your own right, that's for sure. So, let's get into the skills development of your team each year. Obviously, you're coming into each season, you have different skillsets that you have to deal with, you have different players you have to deal with, different attitudes. Tell us about how you start off your year, in terms of skills development. Any sort of drills or training exercises that you lean towards, that really get the kids into the right mindset, into that right physical frame?

Coach O’Connell: So, no. We're a public school in Maryland, so we have some limitation on how we can work with the kids on the basketball court, out of season. But, we do do a lot. We do a lot in the fall, with conditioning and strength training, and I think a lot of that helps just set a work ethic tone for the season. But, just in terms of... Our fall is typically spent on the track, a lot, in the weight room, doing sorts of agility and conditioning things. We do a lot of that in the fall because we are a little limited on how much we can actually work with the kids on the courts.

Tristan: So, we're getting into the season now, and we're... The season's starting up, you've already had your training camp, you've already figured out... You've already, unfortunately, made the cuts that might have to come along with it, you got your core group of guys. Now, let's say you're approaching the season, you start off on a hot streak. All of a sudden, you might hit a little bit of a skid. How do you change the mindset of those kids, there? How do you turn that around? Is there any sort of, like I said, training drills, practice exercises that you prefer, whether it's scrimmaging every practice, or if it's individually working with one student, alone, or a couple students at a time? Is there any kind of strategy that you instill there?

Coach O’Connell assessing his team’s play in the state semifinals.

Photo Credit: The Sentinel

Coach O’Connell: We try to keep our practices very consistent, in terms of, we'll start every single practice with skill work. Dribbling, passing, shooting, every single day. Our next chunk will be a chunk of defense. A lot of it, breakdown. We play a lot of man-to-man defense, and then we'll mix in some offense and some pressure stuff, toward the end of practice. But, we try to keep it very consistent. I think the kids respond to the consistency. Obviously, if we think we're slacking in one area, we certainly will emphasize it a lot more in practice. We watch a lot of film at Roosevelt, and really... Hey, if I don't they're learning back, very hard, on defense, I'm going to show that to them, a lot, on film. And then, we'll go in and simulate that. Or, if I think we're being lazy with the ball, I'm going to show that, a lot, on film. So, practice is... The model is pretty consistent, we'll switch up the drills, we'll emphasize some things, but we do talk a lot, meetings before and after practice, and we do watch a lot of film, too.

Tristan: Sure, yeah, of course the film has to play a part in there. Now, would you say that you're the one identifying it, or do you really try and push it onto your players, to be the ones to take it onto themselves, to watch this film, take some time after school, after classes, and really dig into it, or are you walking them through it, the entire time?

Coach O’Connell: Both. Both. Obviously, we've been using Huddle now. HUDL, Krossover, all the online platforms, that's really changed things in the last few years, and made it possible that all the kids can watch the games that they just played, as soon as they get home, full game, on their phones, on their iPads. It's nice that I can track that, so I can see who's watching what. I can clip things up and send it to them. But, if there's some things that really need to be addressed, I like to do it as a group, so we'll do both.

Craig: So, let's say you've moved through the season, I know consistency is really important with the way that you practice, but say you're moving into the post-season. Maybe you've got fatigue setting in, or even some injuries on the team. How do you adjust your skills development, or do you change up the types of drills that you do there, towards the end of the season?

Coach O’Connell: Yeah, for sure. We shorten practice. We'll typically go two, two and a half hours, early in the year, and then we're down to one and a half hours, late in the year. I mean, I think late in the year, certainly in the playoff run, we don't need as much live basketball being played back and forth. It'll be a lot more skill work, shooting, passing, dribbling. A lot more shooting as the end of the season and the playoffs come down to stretch. A lot more walkthroughs because yeah, I mean, these kids... Their bodies wear down, everybody's tired. And yeah, certainly, I think injuries are more likely to happen when people are mentally and physically tired. So, in terms of... Nothing, again, no totally new drills, but we'll tweak them, so that they're not quite as live or they're quicker, or something like that.

Craig: Okay, got it. And, I mean, it sounds like you've got a winning formula here. I wanted to ask, kind of, a general question about skills development and the types of drills that you use. How do you balance, kind of, individual focus in the types of drills that you choose, versus team-level drills? You know what I mean? Like, being able to provide that individual focus that a particular player needs, versus the needs of the broader team?

Coach O’Connell: Yeah, that's a great questions because that's one that I struggle with, too. I think, as coaches, sometimes we get caught up, too much, in the entire group, and don't focus enough on individual instruction. So, I try to emphasize as much individual instruction as possible. I'm lucky that I have, typically, two, three, and four coaches with me, so we can split up in groups, and we do a lot of... We'll split up by position group or we'll split up by grade level, freshmen and sophomores at one basket, then juniors and seniors, to address specific needs. But yeah, I mean, I always worry that we're spending too much time running through plays and because... None of that's going to work if the kids don't have the individual skills. So, trying to find that balance is hard. I'm reminded of that a lot, as I have little kids, now, who are starting to play sports. And, I'm going to their practices, and I'm watch them, and I'm thinking basically 100% of their practice should be skill work. Individual skill work. At that age, they just need that. And then, somehow, when they transfer into high school, we got to find that balance. But yeah, it's hard. It's hard to find that balance.

Tristan: Absolutely. Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be that little league coach that's got the state championship looking over his shoulder. That's just me. So, here at Hustle, we're all about the advancing, the training plans via technology, when the coaches aren't around. You mentioned that watching the film plays a big part in the program, at Eleanor Roosevelt, and the Huddle technology, and all that. Is there any other technology aspects that you use right now, in terms of training, in terms of skills development, and what do you think the future holds high school and up, in terms of basketball playing, here?

Coach O’Connell: Well, one thing that I would like to see, that I do, and I'm sure there's some app for this that I'm just not aware of, but I like to film the kids shooting, and film their shooting form individually. And then I like to watch that with them. And, you know, every kid's unique, so I'm not exactly sure how you would... I'm sure someone out there is smart enough to figure out an app that could correct peoples' form. But, that's one thing I love to do with the kids because I'm telling them, "Hey, you're not shooting the ball high enough," or, "You're not getting your shoulder up high enough when you shoot." They hear me, but until I actually show it to them... I just bring the iPhone out and put it in slow-mo, and it's really a great way for them to analyze their own shot. We have one of the shooting guns at Roosevelt, so you get those kids on that shooting machine, and they can take... There's another piece of technology that's great. But, they can take 100 shots in five minutes, and I can sit there and film their form, and then we can analyze it later. So, that's one thing I do a lot, that I think it helpful to some of our kids.

Craig: Got it. Great, yeah. I think that's a really interesting idea, about analyzing form through mobile apps, and you know, with Hustle, we are constantly evolving and that's certainly something that we've discussed, internally, about... And you're not the only coach that's asked a similar question. Let's move onto the last round before we wrap up. It's out rapid fire round.

Coach O’Connell: Okay. 

Craig: So, ask a number of quick questions, and kind of learn a little bit more about you. So, I'll kick this off right away. Are there any YouTube channels for coaching content, that you're always visiting?

Coach O’Connell: Not off the top of my head, but I am always on Twitter, and I like a lot of the X's and O's strategy YouTube channels.

Tristan: All right, then, so give us the top... Let's say one to three accounts. IF we can't come up with three. Let's say one to three accounts that you utilize for those coaching tips.

Coach O’Connell: I just follow a bunch of coaches, so... Zak Boisvert has a great one. He's been all over the play at Maine and Army, but he's got a great X's and O's site that I follow.

Craig: So, what's your favorite sports movie of all time?

Coach O’Connell: My new favorite, I think because my kids love it now, too, is The Sandlot.

Craig: Oh yeah.

Tristan: What a throwback.

Craig: Yeah, that's good. 

Coach O’Connell: I loved it as a kid, but now that I watched it with them, and they loved it too, it made me love it more.

Tristan: All right, next rapid fire question. You mentioned your kids are getting into the sports now. Are you leaning toward the basketball realm, or are you getting them into the other sports, as well, trying to make it a more well-rounded approach?

Coach O’Connell: I've got three kids, and none of them currently play basketball, so that answers that.

Tristan: Wow.

Coach O’Connell: It'd be great if they love it later, but they can do whatever they want.

 Tristan: There it is. Well coach, definitely appreciate you taking the time here tonight. Thank you again. Is there any... You mentioned the social media before. Any kind of social media, any organizations you want to plug here before we set you on your way?

Coach O’Connell: No, you know, we're really proud of what we're doing at Roosevelt. Our Twitter handle is @ERoosRaiders. You can give us a follow, check us out. Great program with a lot of kids doing a lot of good things in college and beyond, so hopefully that'll continue. Appreciate you guys having me on. 

Tristan: Absolutely. That's one more thing I got to ask. It's completely off the cuff here, so no worries if you don't have the exact number. Do you have any idea how many athletes you've sent to play on, at the next level?

Coach O’Connell: No. I think it's about 50 or so.

Craig: Wow.

Tristan: That'll do. That'll do.

Coach O’Connell: But yeah, no, yeah, we've been lucky. 

Tristan: Yeah, I'd say so. Changing lives.

Coach O’Connell: A lot of good players come through.

Tristan: Yeah, changing their lives one step at a time. Well, I know you folks definitely have a couple of college commits from this past year. Definitely wish you all the best in the future, as well, as well as to all your players, and appreciate the time once again here, coach.

Coach O’Connell: Yeah, thanks, guys.

In this week's podcast, @CoachSamBrand (who just won his third straight Maryland state championship) talks us through his path in coaching, how he zeroes in on player development and the drills he puts his team through to keep raising trophies.

Tristan: All right. We have the pleasure of speaking with Baltimore Polytechnic Institute Head Men's Basketball Coach, Sam Brand on here today. Recent winner of a 3A State Championship down there in Maryland. That's a three peat, I believe. Isn't that right, Coach?

Sam Brand: That is correct.

Tristan: Coach, this is a pleasure. I really appreciate having you on today. We are just going to talk about some of some of your methods when it comes to game planning, practicing, getting these kids ready for their drills, coming up with new drills for these kids, and where you come from and really help out our athletes as they try to develop their own game plan. Let's just start out. We know you had played actually at Baltimore Polytechnic for your high school days. Went on to play at Morgan State University where I read that you actually currently hold or did hold the three point record. Isn't that right?

Coach Sam Brand celebrates his first state championship with a Baltimore Polytechnic Institute player.

Photo Credit: City Paper, Reginald Thomas II

Sam Brand: I had all three point records when I finished playing, but a guy came along ... I actually coached there for four years right after I finished. A guy, Reggie Holmes who has every scoring record, three point included, afterwards. But I was fortunate enough to be a part of his process as he broke all my records, but when I finished I did have all three point records.

Tristan: You helped him achieve what he was able to achieve, I'm sure.

Sam Brand: I appreciate Reggie for that.  He tells a story that way, so that way I don't have to.

Tristan: There it is. I think that was probably you dipping your toe into coaching there, and then you really took it head on once you went over to BPI. Tell us what that was like coming out of college. You just finished up the four years there. Started as a graduate assistant at Morgan State and went back to BPI. Now, they had a program going before, but you really resurrected that program, didn't you?

Sam Brand: Yeah. It was an amazing experience getting to play Division 1 basketball, and then getting to coach as well. I got a chance to go to the NCAA tournament at my school, which was awesome experience. But the opportunity presented itself four years in to go back to my alma mater and Baltimore Polytech where really, I learned a lot about the establishment of a program. We had some success when I was at Morgan as a player, but nothing like the success we had when I got to be able to coach there. I learned a lot of what it entailed to create a program and establish culture and established winning ways, and I really was interested in doing that on my own. And I earned a Master's in Mathematics Education while I was coaching at Morgan. And right at the time we have made our second straight NCAA tournament, we were doing great. I also was approached by the assistant principal at my old high school and just basically asking that academically they were in turmoil. The program had never even been to a city championship in over 100 years, and I'd just been a part of resurrecting Morgan and I just finished my Master's degree in Mathematics Education at the time. It worked out where I was ready to take on the challenge of taking on my high school program. And it was funny. A lot of people at that time warned me about taking a step back as if coaching in high school was not as prestigious as being in college. But that opportunity to have something that was my own, to do it with some friends, and then it was really intriguing to me that it had never been done. The school had so much history behind it, but none behind a boy's basketball program. That was the initial thought, is to create something from what I've learned in my Morgan experience.

Tristan: Sure. You did start that program there. Now, tell us. Was there any impediments? Anything that really stood in the way of getting off the ground there? And what were they? And how did you address them?

Sam Brand: Absolutely. I think that any place where you're going to go, it has history and that history is not a winning one. There's going to be a reason why. The same way if there is a winning tradition, there'll be a reason why as well, and certain things that were done to get it to that point. And I think when you're starting any program, you look at the exact ... What the hurdles may be and what the strengths may be, and often they're actually the same thing. At Poly, it's a public school in Baltimore City where obviously we have a lot of great basketball here, but it's also a magnet school academically. It's not easy to get into. I think in the history of the school, I think that one of the challenges was that there was either basketball guys in there who were really trying to make their way with the basketball program and didn't quite understand what needed to be done academically with the rigors of being a part of such a tough academic school, or you had some good teachers who tried to coach a basketball team there where they maybe didn't ... Weren't able to keep up with the competitiveness of Baltimore City athletics and our league, but they were great academic people. What I tried to be was that balance, and it first started with proving myself. I mean, I'd just come from coaching in college and playing in college and there weren't that many division one players that came out of Poly before. I had some credibility coaching in the basketball world, but absolutely first and foremost what I had to do is establish a culture of academic support and excellence among the guys to know that winning would be great ... And I'm a very competitive guy. I wanted to win bad, but I wouldn't even be able to have a leg to stand on with my principal or with the community or with the parents if I wasn't qualifying guys and making sure our guys were academically supported so they were fortunate enough to get good enough where they were being recruited at the college level, that all their academics were taken care of and they were academically ready.

I'm definitely not the kind of guy that says, "I like flex offense. All my teams are going to run it. Doesn't matter who I have. Doesn't matter what players I have. They're going to adjust to me." I'm always looking to adjust to meet the needs of my team.

Tristan: Nice. Those are all really great points and really good background on how you can build a program like that. You were also involved with USA Basketball, I heard. U16, U17, that kind of stuff. How did you get involved there?

Sam Brand: The relationship that I have with ... The director of the junior national team right now is named Samson, and he actually started out as a film guy at Morgan when I was there as an assistant. And we started at camp together, and really, from that experience what I tell people is because ... The reality is that it's a very elite and prestigious group of coaches to be a part of, and a part of me is like, I know that there was a lot of people ... You won one state championship, why are you there? At this point, I think they ... With three in a row, I think they've got a reason to have me out there. But at first it was like, why are you there? And the truth and what I tell people is that from the beginning when I got into this, I was relationship driven and I've always just had the mentality. I don't care if you're the head coach or you're a grad assistant or you're a manager. Whoever it is, I'm going to treat everybody with respect, really pay attention to my relationships and develop them with purpose. And Samson was one of those guys. And I think that what he remembered is that when I was an assistant coach and he was a manager, that I showed him the same respect and I showed everyone else and we developed a relationship the same way I develop my relationships across the board with people within the program. And it turned into him giving me an opportunity and me taking advantage of it down the line. But really, what it was is just I think a lot of the people that you come in contact with in this business, and really just in general, that sports and basketball have been my thing. People that manage and take care of their relationships are successful. And I'm a part of USA Basketball because I feel like I have integrity in the way that I manage and take care of our relationships.

Tristan: That's great and really good story. Let's pivot into talking a little bit about skills development with ... Craig and I, we work on the Hustle app, and a lot of what we do is related to getting players the best drills out there for the right situations and developing players. Let's talk about the start of a season. Are there any specific drills or exercises you prefer to get your team ready to play? Especially as the season's kicking off?

Sam Brand: A couple things. In terms of my favorite drills and then what to do for each season, I really feel like ... And I think in the development world, being in the Baltimore area, there's a lot of options to go for training and for development and for coaching. And you have to constantly ... I think one of the advantages that I'm appreciative of was really seeing a bunch of guys that put a lot of time and energy into it and how they do it, and picking and choosing what I take from it. One thing that I think is really important when it comes to development, especially as you approach a season, is to really have some good knowledge of self as to where your game is. There are certain guys that are going to need to create space with their offensive game through setbacks, let's say. There are certain guys that adding that movement or that move into their game is something that really fits their game. And there are certain guys that no matter how long they played the game, they really will never need to take an off the dribble step back, or if they do, it's going to be a very advanced part of the game. I say that to say, I think that what we look to do is really throughout the spring and summer to really work ... We tell our guys, "Look, go develop everything. Whatever skill you want to work on, really open it up. Play a lot, work on your skill, and really grow your game and don't have any limit to doing that and have fun with it." And then when it comes down to the time when we're approaching the season, in the preseason, we want our drills to be more centered on two things. One, what is your skill set? If you're a guy that only needs two feet to get your shot off and if you get your feet set with a little bit of space, you're a very dangerous weapon, then I think that you need to focus in on the things that ... Drills to do with footwork that create that last couple of feet of space, and then playing off of that space. Whether it be inside pivot, catching shoots, and now I'm attacking. I close out on the different ways that guys can close out on me because I know they got to run at me because I'm the shooter. Now you can work your drills and the skills that you're developing based on what you've gotten good at and what shots you're going to get in the game. And I think that taking it to another level is that when you're focused on your game and then beyond that where you're going to get shots in your coaches or your teams offense or system, based on what you're best at. And then, you get really more specific as you go, and then you play the season, you're committed to the team, you go back in the off season, and you're working on your overall game. And then I think each year you come back and focus in on what it is you bring to the table, and focus the drills around that.

Do we change our outlook with the loss? I feel like you don't want your players to be too reactionary on losing the basketball games, so you can't be too much that way as a coach.

Tristan: Got it. You talked a lot about customizing specific drills based on individual players' needs. How do you balance between team drills and individual player drills, especially with a limited amount of time that you can be with them practicing?

Sam Brand: I think balance is a great word. Like I was saying, we try to focus on different things different parts of the year so that balance is going to be geared toward that. There's no point where we want guys not continuing to grow individually, but when it's January and you're in conference play and you're heading towards your state playoff push, we look around and we're like, "Look, this is who we are right now with this team. Let's really focus in on the things that we know strategy-wise are working for us, and let's be the best at those things and focus in on ourselves." And then, the balance goes more towards, "Look, what are we looking to add to your game in April? What can we say that ... Last year, you shot 14% from the three. But I think that with a really strong summer and getting, let's say, 20,000 reps of these shots ... We feel like next year you can move that up to a place where you're taking that shot and making it consistently. Here's what we want to do." And then you plan the drills around that. I think the balance depends on the time of year and what exactly the focus is developmental-wise during that time.

Tristan: Got it. Great. That's great answers there. A tough question, and I know this doesn't happen very often, but what about after a loss? How do you adjust your strategy there?

Sam Brand: I'll tell you what, as a coach, you'd like to not have to learn from losses.

Tristan: Yeah, true.

Let's play the best teams we can possibly play. Let's take some losses if we have to, and let's learn from them. Let's make sure that we're losing to teams that are putting a lot of work and time into preparing to beat us so that when we do, we're losing to formidable opponents and we can really learn some important lessons from it.

Sam Brand: But really it presents ... I can say that one of our philosophies is ... I really could have in the past three years during these state championship runs ... All three of our regional championships were on the road. I say that to say that we were never a top seat going into our state playoffs, and it's because we purposefully make our schedule harder than any other public school in the state. And that might affect us seating wise, but the reason why we do that is because our first state championship, we played Simeon from Chicago earlier in that season. And we played it really tough at home in Baltimore. Simeon is a well-known program, and for good reason. We're in a dog fight with them. At the end of the game, we cut it to one with a three with like seven seconds left, and the ball goes through the net with about seven seconds left. It takes them two or three seconds to get the ball and take it out of bounds, and then you just stand there with it because we have no timeouts left, and they know there's nothing I can do to stop the clock. It was a tough way to lose. Everybody got hype, but their team knew. Look, this game's over. The ball went through the net. I got enough time to take it out and just hold it. We don't have to play anymore. Later, we were in the state championship game. Our guy's at the free throw line. We're up by four and he looks over and he says, "Coach, I'm missing this. Don't touch the ball. The game's over." And it was really funny because the exact situation that happened to us in the loss verse Simeon, we were on the other side of that in our state championship game and everyone knew that the game was over, and it was just easier not to foul a three point shooter in that situation. And that's just a microcosm of what we've had. Our experience has been, let's play the best teams we can possibly play. Let's take some losses if we have to, and let's learn from them. Let's make sure that we're losing to teams that are putting a lot of work and time into preparing to beat us so that when we do, we're losing to formidable opponents and we can really learn some important lessons from it. But in terms of, do we change our strategy? Do we change our outlook with the loss? I feel like you don't want your players to be too reactionary on losing the basketball games, so you can't be too much that way as a coach. While at the same time, as we were talking about balance earlier, you have to be open to, you know what? Maybe my team isn't a team. Maybe this team won't do a little bit better with the zone. Let me try the zone pressure versus demand pressure up there. You need to be humble enough to be open to new ideas, but then also be confident enough in your preparation and all the time that you put in the off season, that you're not just going to scrap everything because it didn't work for you.

Tristan: Sure. Yeah. You definitely want to keep that strategy going forward. Whatever you establish there at the beginning of the season is what ... Obviously, after winning three straight state championships, I think you're doing something right over there.

Sam Brand: Well, I tell you though, in each ... In the first and third year, so two years ago and then this year, we had ... I would say our best defense in the state playoffs was in ... I wouldn't have said that was our best defense in December. We allowed things to happen throughout the year. You want to stay open and grow. You don't want to be the exact same team in February that you were in November. For sure you want to grow and you want to allow that to happen. But I think that's part of it, is you have ... You don't want to ... I'm definitely not the kind of guy that says, "I like flex offense. All my teams are going to run it. Doesn't matter who I have. Doesn't matter what players I have. They're going to adjust to me." I'm always looking to adjust to meet the needs of my team.

Tristan: Okay, yeah. Tell us about that process a little bit. I know it's a broad question, but is there something you can zero in on about implementing that growth and the strategy behind it? And then also, just having to meld all these different types of skillsets to what that strategy is and achieving that growth.

Sam Brand: Yeah. With the young generation of athletes, it's very important for them all to have investment in what the team's goals and what the plans for the team are, and what I try to do in that process ... To get specific, I'll refer you to our first state playoff runs. We had a guy who ... In our first state championship run, we had a senior who's at Temple now as a sophomore, Devandre Perry. And then, we had a junior who's at Long Beach State right now. And they were our two highest profile guys, but we had a guy who was so tenacious on the ball and it was to the point where he's actually ... He's playing division two basketball now in West Virginia at Alderson Broaddus, and he was just the best on ball defender I'd ever coached. And I was like, the things that he's doing to the opposing team's pass guard, I wanted to accentuate it more in our defense. What we did was we started running a running jump in the back court with ... We were basically find out who they had that run the ball up the court, who were their primary ball handler, identify that either within scout or within the first minute or two of the game. And we would put him on their primary ball handler, and he could turn anyone in the back court. He could make anyone have a little bit of trouble bringing it up, so we would send a guy on the weak side. We would make the team play fast. We had a bunch of athletic guys behind him, so it was a way to really start off pressure defense to take the ball out of their primary ball handler's hands, put them in a tough situation, make someone else be a playmaker. And it was the defense that we rode throughout the state playoffs and it was really geared towards the fact that we have an elite guy knowing that. We have an elite level shot blocker on your team, which we had a few years back. We changed our philosophy as to where we didn't really care too much about getting beat off the dribble, as long as we were able to apply crazy amounts of pressure and we were ... We were denying one pass away and putting crazy amounts of pressure on the ball because we know we had a guy sitting at the rim who just made it so hard for people to finish at the rim. We adjusted and said, "You know what?" And he wasn't our best player, so I think that was a cool part about it. This year, we ran a morphing zone defense from a three-two to a two-three, and we put our athletic five who could guard multiple positions at the top of the three-two. And then he would drop back into a two-three based on certain reads with the way that they were running their zone offense. All three of those cases, we had guys that necessarily weren't our best player, but they had an elite defensive skill and we changed our entire defensive philosophy to fit that skill and empower somebody on the team that wasn't necessarily a star. And I think it paid big dividends in terms of ownership of the guys, and then it was an example of what you're asking about. Making an adjustment to your style of play based on who you have.

Tristan: Okay. And that's what it's all about. Based on who you have and what their skill set is. Let's say, and you're pretty well seasoned to this now. You're getting towards the end of the season. You're making that post-season push, or you're already in it. You might be dealing with some injuries or fatigue. What's the strategy in addressing that, especially with young players? And is there any drills you like or any training exercises that you like to counteract those effects?

Coach Sam angrily jumps after a questionable call during a game against Chicago's Simeon Academy.

Photo Credit: City Paper, Reginald Thomas II

Sam Brand: Well, I tell you what. When it comes to injury and fatigue late in the season, what you did in the off season is going to be huge. The time that you put in ... We're a public school in Baltimore, but we are fortunate enough to have a really great relationship with a guy named [Yves] Joseph who's a doctor up the street. He runs a pivot physical therapy location not too far from our school. We do yoga year round. We do strength and conditioning year round. We make sure our guys are doing stuff, taking care of your body. It's something that I came up ... I was high school ... I graduated high school in 1999. Taking care of your body, I think we all knew it was important, but we sprained our ankle, we tied our shoe tighter and we kept going. I didn't think about what my pregame meal was in high school. I didn't think about what diet that I would need to maintain the lifestyle that I had. Whereas now, the more that you pay attention to everything about your body year round, the better you're able to handle the rigors of a season. And then, with young guys now, I mean, you go right into AAU basketball afterwards. There really is not much of a of a downtime, so I say that to say that one, the three-hour practice year round is not ... Coaches have learned to be a lot more efficient. They've learned that it's not the best thing for guys' bodies to maximize their athleticism. Being more efficient is really important for a coach and keeping things fresh. We do a lot more game situation and skill work late in the year, but we're really working on getting better at certain situations in the game and and having guys get used to playing up three, down three late in the season. We go hard for not as long a period of time. In terms of my adjustment is to shorten the time and try to pick up the intensity a little bit. But with the guys and with your program, it's really about, what do you do year round for injury prevention and for maintenance of health? What we eat is really important to us and what we do with our bodies. It's just a message that, like you said, I mean, one player goes down and your whole season changes. When you got all your guys ... We've been very fortunate in this area, and it hasn't been because of luck.

Tristan: That's great. Coach, you walked us through the season end to end and the off season. A lot of really great information. But let's talk a little bit about getting that edge through technology. What role does technology play in your coaching now? And then, looking forward, what role do you see it playing in the future?

Sam Brand: Well, so I'm an educator first by profession. I'm a math teacher. And the way that people learn was ... When I was a grad assistant in college, I remember one of my teachers saying that she wanted us ... One of my professors was saying that she wanted us to understand how people teach and how people learn math, and those weren't two separate ideas to me until I met her and understood what she was saying. And so, the way that people learn now is through technology, and if you want to teach them new things, you better incorporate it. The answer to your question ... Right now, we have Krossover as our film editing software. We communicate through group chat and a team app. I would like to use it more in terms of repetition and holding each other accountable with X amount of reps. We have our guys make their own highlight videos. I've got fast draw where I'll send a play to a guy and tell him, "This is something" ... To the guys and tell them, "This is something we're going to put in for sideline out of bounds situation in the next couple of games." But to answer to the question, I try to incorporate technology as much as possible because I know that my players get excited about new technology and it is just the way that they learn. If I want our guys to learn something new, I try to figure out a way to incorporate technology in teaching it to them, because I know that's how they want to learn.

Craig: Nice. Good stuff. Before we wrap up, something that we do with a lot of our guests, we ask them a few rapid fire questions. Let's go right to that rapid fire round. Tristan, you got it for the first question.

Tristan: All right. Let's get into it. All right, let's start off easy. Favorite sports movie, Sam? Excuse me. Favorite sports movie, Coach?

Sam Brand: He Got Game.

Craig: Nice. All right. Who is the coach across any sport that you admire the most?

Sam Brand: Doc Rivers.

Tristan: Nice. Are there any YouTube channels or any technology outlets you'd like to check out for coaching tips?

Sam Brand: I go to actual coaches for my coaching tips to be honest. I'll tell you what, there's a couple of people I follow on Twitter that have ... Brian Williams is a guy I can think about that just has some great sets and just some great quick stuff on coaching. There's some great followers on Twitter that I have are my best resource for that.

Craig: Good one. This one's my favorite question. What's your favorite basketball shoe of all time?

Sam Brand: I would say Charles Barkley 90 ... I want to say 98. Charles Barkley 98's. They had a tiger print almost on the side.

Tristan: When he was with the Suns?

Sam Brand: He was with the Suns. That's was an elite era for me, basketball-wise. I loved that team. I love Charles Barkley and those were ... They had some Airmax in purple and orange. I love those shoes.

Craig: Coach, thank you for joining us and lending us so much of your time tonight. Really appreciate it and definitely think our young athletes are going to benefit from all that information you were able to bestow upon us there. Any final thoughts? Any organizations? Any type of charities you'd like to give a plug to? Any social media? Anything like that?

Sam Brand: You know what? I'm @CoachSamBrand on all my social media outlets. I try to do as much in the community as I can, so if you follow me up, you'll follow something. I got 50,000 on me, though. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you sharing this. It's the next level of what I want to do.

Craig: I can see that now. You're definitely an educator first and foremost, and that definitely range through here via our podcast. Appreciate it again here, Sam. Coach, excuse me. I really got to work on that.

Sam Brand: All good.

Craig: Really appreciate your time again here, Coach, and good luck next season.

Sam Brand: All right, guys. Take it easy.

Tristan: All right. Thanks.